The Program You Didn’t Choose

Former spy, author, and speaker Meegan Kriley-Mackay joins 100 Stories for a conversation about human intelligence, Narrative Intelligence, artificial intelligence, soft interrogation, and what she calls the “human program.”

Meegan believes we all inherit a program shaped by family, culture, experience, fear, expectations, and the world we were born into.

The interesting part begins when we can see it.

In Meegan’s framework, human intelligence involves becoming aware of the program, questioning it, thinking beyond it, making different choices, and learning how to connect with others.

That sounded remarkably familiar to the five capacities I’m exploring in Narrative Intelligence: Recognition, Discernment, Flexibility, Agency, and Enactment.

So we asked a question I still don’t know the answer to:

Are we describing the same human capacity from two different directions?

We also talk about Meegan’s years in intelligence work, what interrogation training taught her about human behavior, and why her approach to “soft interrogation” emphasizes empathy, active listening, and open-ended questions.

And then there is AI.

Meegan argues that this moment requires us to become much more interested in human intelligence: who is shaping AI, which narratives are embedded in it, and what human capacities we risk undervaluing as machines become more capable.

The question I’m leaving with: What part of the program you inherited have you never stopped to question?

More about Meegan Kriley-Mackay: https://www.softinterrogator.com/

More about Paige Williams: https://paigewilliams.co/

StoryKeys: https://storykeys.co/

The 100 Stories Project: https://100storiesproject.com/

00:00 Meet Meegan Kriley-Mackay

00:40 What childhood taught her about human behavior

02:34 The prison-cell moment that changed everything

04:21 How Meegan became a spy

09:34 The “human program” we inherit

10:44 How Jim Kriley shaped both of our thinking

18:16 What soft interrogation really is

21:53 Empathy, listening & open-ended questions

26:22 Narrative Intelligence beyond the words

29:10 Human Intelligence vs. Narrative Intelligence

36:17 Why AI makes Human Intelligence urgent

38:52 Meegan’s definition of Human Intelligence

41:28 Are Human Intelligence and Narrative Intelligence the same thing?

44:34 The five capacities of Narrative Intelligence

46:41 Plato’s cave and seeing the story you’re living

48:47 What this conversation changed in my thinking

50:57 The program we inherit—and whether we choose to obey it